The final word in FMP 7 Structure errr...

[harryglos]

I’ve been going “back and forth and forth and back” on what direction to take regarding FileMaker 7 and I’ve come to a decision and thought I’d share it with the forum lurkers, deadbeats, re-verts, pre-verts and converts. The first thing you may want to ask yourself is; “why should I listen to what this guy has to say in the first place”? Good question, but you’re the one reading!

 

First let me say what you already know! “One Does Not Fit All” in Solution building or Solution use”! The structure I am talking about is predicated on Large Solutions, with a lot of data and many users. Not a solution that we would build for Aunt Edna! So please don’t send a post with “I have a 3 file stamp collection database that I build in FileMaker 7.0 and it works just great in the new Single File Format”! First of all no body cares about your Single File Format Stamp Collection, unless it’s worth a lot of money, then you may want to send it to me for a “look see”! The stamps, not the database!

 

It took a while for me to realize that my solution decision needed to be the same regardless if I was starting a new solution in FMP 7, or I was converting a current solution made in FMP 6 or earlier!

 

There are three directions to take in FMP 7 right!

 

1. Single file format where all files are in one file!

2. Separation model with one interface file and one (maybe more) data files.

3. Separate file system of old!

 

I know you can use a combination of all three, but lets no complicate this more than it needs to be.

 

I’ll not go into a big “Song & Dance” with all kinds of support data and information that no one wants to read anyway. Just accept on faith, I love that, that I’ve done my homework. These are simply my findings that you can accept of reject at will. I’m just a poor Resident Bean Bag country boy. Although some would say I’m prematurely brilliant... Others would say I’m Passive Aggressive, Chronic and Manifested by sullenness! But then again, how many of you talk to my mother?

 

And finely, do I hear applause, is what I have to say... For a large system it is better to have a separate file for each module in the system. E.g. Invoices, Contacts, Sales, Purchases, etc. It's much easier to manage customization and changes on smaller files. If the system was just one file and a customer wanted to get a small change to the Contacts functionality for example, then they would have to email the whole system (single file) and that could be huge.

 

I’ve spent untold hours developing in all three phases of FMP7 and if my “On The Job Training” is of any help to you, “if you want to save yourself a lot of time, grief and frustration give considerable thought to number 3. You’ll be happy you did and you will be able to “for the most part”, take full advantage of the new things FileMaker 7 has to offer and less effected by some of the things it lacks!

 

I know that others will jump in on this, as you should. But you should know in advance that I’m hardly ever wrong! So if you’re reading this now, before in makes a difference, it could make a difference later... But if you’re reading this now, before the difference than it may not make a difference anyway. But if you’re reading this right now, while it still could make a difference, it cold then be quite differentiating. I’m really very confused!

 

Harry

[Maarten Witberg]

Harryglos! where have you been all these months!

 

good to see you're back and that you're still your old self, insight and fun in one big happy grin.

 

kjoe

[harryglos]

Kjoe you ol "Ridge Runner" how you doin?

 

I’ve had some issues to deal with that I’ll not burden you with, unless there’s money in it... But suffice it to say “It’s great to be back” and even greater to be “Missed”...

 

I love Maaaan!

 

Harry

[Maarten Witberg]

livin and learning Harry, thats about it, slippin of that ridge now and again.. and clambering back up again.

 

kjoe

[Ender]

Harry,

 

It's good to see you've finally come around to my way of thinking on this! For me, modules are the way to go. Now, if I could only get my conversion to work...

 

Oh yeah, and it's good to see you around. It's been boring around here since kjoe became Moderator!

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Hia all.

 

The same goes for me actually. Application's Modularization + welcome back + Congrats to Kjoe's new status.

[Maarten Witberg]

Thanks Ugo. Thanks Ender, also, I think....

Aren't moderators supposed to be moderate? With moderation...

 

kjoe

[harryglos]

Kjoe,

 

What's this I hear about you being a "Moderator"! Surely they mean at the HOME, not here on the forum... Surely they jest! And here I referred to you as a "Ridge Runner"! Kjoe a moderator, what will they think of next? Something like there's no such thing as Santa Clause...

 

I've been working on a conversion job that I’m excited about, because the entire place has iMac’s, 66 of the beautiful devils. Maybe it's just me, but I've seen very little information on speed 6 vs 7 especially over a server where most work is done in today's business environment. So I’m really interested to see the results “Up close and Personal”! Most clients have a real hodgepodge of computers and you can run all kinds of tests but they are significantly skewed. But here, the testing environment is as near perfect as possible. And inquiring minds want to know!

 

I ran a number of real world test there with 6 and I should have the 7 results within the next week. I'll share the information here on the forum while we sip coffee together. It should be interesting because I’ll run the tests with FMP 7 as indicated above;

 

1. Single file format where all files are in one file!

2. Separation model with one interface file and one (maybe more) data files.

3. Separate file system of old!

 

I’ve designed each of the solutions and that's important because the structure will be the same. They are not three different solutions designed by three different developers. The speed + or- is not skewed because of different design methodology of different developers!

 

I still can’t get over Kjoe as moderator! I mean, is there no sense or order anymore. Is there no shame? As Johnny Carson once said “May a tick infected Yak back into your computer room”...

 

You guys are great and Ender, my life's desire is to be more like you man and Ugo, your “top drawer” and much appreciated! And I’d love room and board in Paris and I’d not take advantage of your hospitality, no more than a few months, Tops!

 

Harry

[Maarten Witberg]

[ QUOTE ]

I still can’t get over Kjoe as moderator! I mean, is there no sense or order anymore.

 

[/ QUOTE ]

well, since people are coming out of the closet all over the place (see http://www.maclane.com/ubbthreads/showfl...true#Post496983 ), I'll tell you that I am an urban planner and as such am trained to bluff my way through anything short of brain surgery.... seriously, it's just a matter of knowing people in High Places....such is the order of things!

 

Now really seriously, your contribution to this site's content is greatly appreciated. I'm sure a lot of people are interested in your findings. A background issue would be what server is installed. And we're talking about the white bulby g4/g5 things, not the slotloader g3 blueberries I assume? 66. that's a sight for sore eyes. If that's your idea of a good time of course....

 

Looking forward to your results. In the meantime, here's a shovel because that yak just did something unspeakable in my computer room.

 

kjoe

 

 

ps seriously, again, I am really honoured by the job. so many people around here that I can't stand in the shadow of, FMwise.

[harryglos]

As a moderator who is moderating, moderately I pose this question. The “SPEED” results I spoke of earlier. Should I,

 

A. Add it to this post

B. Start a new post with a witty name like “Speed not Weed, grasshopper”!

C. Add part of it to this post, part of it to another post and the other part to the wall of the bathroom at the airport in Bangor, Main.

 

I simply want to be politically correct! I made a post a while ago to the, you know, the “Pay as You go forum” and it couldn’t have been more than 2 minutes and I got a note from Uncle Lee saying “If you were not such a jerk and only thought of yourself and not others and majored in stupidity at a local junior college, you would know where to post and I wouldn’t have to move it and send you this castigating letter”! Admittedly I took some liberties with the structure of Uncle Lee’s letter. But it seems to me if you’re going to pay for it, you should be able to post where you want too right! I mean come guys weigh in on this thing. Don’t be some mamby pamby, no nothin, say nothin Girlie Mon! Come on Girls, you know what I mean... Some times it's good to just get it off your chest. No sexual connotation intended! And just as a sub note to Uncle Lee, what in the heck does Castigating mean? That ain’t no Junior College word, that there is a full University word! Oh well, I regress! What’s the quote, “I think you protestith too much”... But isn’t that what we do, it is, you know it is, we go to the forums and “Post Wrong”! That’s what we do, that’s our thing, must they take away everything!

 

I look down at the bottom of the page after reading all of the posts and I see just below;

 

“EXTRA INFORMATION”

 

Moderator: David Head, CobaltSky, Kjoe

 

Kjoe, I know what you mean about “stand in the shadow”. David and Ray are the best of the best! They say “you are known by who you associate with” so Kjoe, you’re doin good!

 

BTW... where is that deadbeat who runs the PUG in Orlando? My wife will not let me say his name out loud, but I’ve not seen him lurking around the forum of late. Maybe he went somewhere else. Naaaaaaaaa, no body is that lucky!

[Maarten Witberg]

[ QUOTE ]

Should I,

A. Add it to this post

B. Start a new post with a witty name like “Speed not Weed, grasshopper”!

C. Add part of it to this post, part of it to another post and the other part to the wall of the bathroom at the airport in Bangor, Main.

 

 

[/ QUOTE ]

 

you got me rolling on the floor again Harry! seen the number of views on this thread? you've got a big audience my man, do post it here!

 

[ QUOTE ]

where is that deadbeat who runs the PUG in Orlando?

 

[/ QUOTE ]

if you mean the person I think you do, as far as I know he, regrettably, is no longer a member of our community. I leave any qualifications as to his character to you and will judge them in the light of this lighthearted thread. Is this moderately good moderation?

 

um, could you lower the language barrier for me a bit? what's a girlie mon? this is bad moderation bcos I am supposed to keep people on-topic. that applies to myself too...nevertheless...

 

kjoe

[Wingwalker]

Hi Harry,

 

I must say that your combination of Good Humor and Good Knowledge is hard to beat and I follow your posts religiously. Is it my imagination or have you changed the name of your company? I don't remember what it was but I don't remember it being Pro Data Solution.

 

Anyway, it's good to see you back on the forum. You were missed!

[harryglos]

Hi Wingwalker,

 

You are observant. I did recently change the name of my company. I’ve gone from primarily Unix based systems programming to 100% FileMaker and with it a change in name! There is a little more to it than that but that covers it for the moment... I do thank you for your kind words as well.

 

Still no word from that deadbeat Andy Gaunt I see. Andy is another guy you could always count on for good information and good humor. There are never enough of his kind to go around. I’m trying to remember his company name... I think it was “fusion” or something like that... Anyway, if you talk to that boy tell him I said, Howdy Partner!

 

Harry

[harryglos]

"Oh my darlin, oh my darlin, oh my darlin clement..... Oops, sorry about that, you caught me singing! At least I wasn’t in the shower this time! Although I'd like to take a back brush to a few of you... And you know who you are by the way! Ya, you're one of them for sure you savage you!

 

I know this is a very important post and I'm trying to remember why? Bread at the store, no I got that, prescription at the pharmacy, nope got that, hammer at the hardware store, no don’t want that! Now I remember, Kjoe, the moderate, moderator himself, needed to know the definition of a "Girlie Mon"! This definition is right out of the most recent pages of Wunk and Fagnal...

 

“One who takes the wrapper off a chocolate bar and licks his fingers. One who takes the wrapper off your chocolate bar and licks your fingers! One who runs their fingernails down a chalkboard while whistling Sweet Georgia Brown. One with a bark like Hulk Hogan and a bite like PeeWee Herman. One who uses a database like FileMaker with a mind set like Access...

 

I guess I only have one last thing to say... Hosta-La-Veesta- Baby...

 

I’m putting together the speed test info on 6 vs 7 and hope to have it posted late today or in the morning...

 

Love you guys,

 

Harry

[harryglos]

Greetings one and all,

 

Trying to figure out how to write this so it makes any kind of sense has been more difficult by far than running the tests. I hope that I’ve structured it in such a way that it doesn’t ware you out wading through it, yet gives enough information that it’s helpful. I wanted to do two things.

 

1. Show how 6 and 7 match up in speed.

2. Show how 7 matches up Single File, Separation Model and also Separate File configuration.

 

Here is the Hardware and Software used in the test:

 

Server & All Networked Computers : iMac’s

CPU: Power PC G4 (3.3)

CPU Speed: 1 GHz

L2 Cache (per cpu) 256 KB

Memory: 512 MB

Bus Speed: 133 MHz

Boot ROM version: 4.5.8f1

Number of Computers Networked: 66

The Database Software Old: FileMaker 6 v4

The Database Server Old: FileMaker 6 v1

The Database Software New: FileMaker 7 v3

The Database Server New: FileMaker 7 v2

Files populated with 87,244 records:

 

Here are the ledgends for the information shown:

 

1= Single file format all files and data are in one file.

2= Separation mode with one interface file and external data files.

3= Separate file system (like older versions)

 

+ = No significant difference

A=Slower by 1/3 F1=Faster by 1/3

B=Slower by 1/2 F2=Faster by 1/2

C=Slower by 3/4 F3=Faster by 3/4

D=Really slooow F4=Really Faster

 

* Speed results are shown between vs 6 “separate file system” and vs 7 “separate file system” only.

 

Here are the results and I'm sorry I can't structure them better, like you would do on a word processor. But as you know forums don't allow that structure!

 

General Finds

1+ 2+ 3+ vs *6+

 

Find & Omit

1C 2D 3A vs *6+

 

Find, Omit and Sort

1D 2D 3A vs *6C

 

Find 6 of 87,000 rec

1D 2D 3A vs *6C

 

Sort 87,000 Rec

1A 2B 3F2 vs *6A

 

Sort 87,000 Rec w/sum fld

1D 2D 3F1 vs *6A

 

Calc total of 14,000 rec

1D 2D 3F2 vs *6A

 

SPECIAL NOTES “File size”:

#1. was 32% larger than #3

#2. was 22% larger than #3 (4 data files)

#3. was 6% smaller than FMP 6

 

 

As things are now unless FileMaker does something serious on data management, the “Single File Format” for a large system is, in my opinion, a poor choice. It is not only slower, but if a client required a simple change to the file it would have to be delivered on an 18 wheeler. FileMaker is a tremendous tool just make sure to use it in the way that best fits the job. I’ll have all of the information, actual times, types and structures published on my web site after I get it all put together. I’ll let you know when it’s completed!

 

 

 

Hope it helps,

 

Harry

[Ender]

Harry, you know love you, and I appreciate all that you do. You've obviously put a great deal of effort into Frankensteining the GPA scale with the Fujita scale to come up with some sort of FMP scale. But what does it all mean, man?

 

Why do you suppose separate files performed better in some tests?

 

Also, what was the load on the server during these tests? Were all clients logged in and doing things or just a couple?

[harryglos]

Ender you're always wanting more man. That’s why your Momma named you “Ender” and not “Beginner” and you have it wrong man... You are killing me man you’re just killin me! And don’t you write back saying “I’m killin you man” because I’ll just write back saying “you’re killin me man”! Oops just a moment, I’m either out of breath or a took an Ender!

 

What it all means is, well, it, ah, ok, it, ah......... OH YA!!!

 

Man I new what it meant at the time I posted it I really did! But now with all your syco-bable-riff-raff-show-and-tell-scratch-and-smell stuffffff, I’m just really confused about the whole thing!

 

That FileMaker 7 is very slow and very bulbous in the “single file format” I’m not sure everyone new that!

That FileMaker 7 is slow and bulbous in the “Separation file format” I’m not sure everyone new that!

That FileMaker 7 looks, thinks and acts best in the old standard “Single file system” I’m not sure everyone new that!

And from the standpoint of speed between FileMaker 6 and 7 I’m not sure everyone new that either!

 

So in conclusion, “May a deranged poultry-man stage a pecking contest in your shorts”! That ain’t no Ender, That there is a “Finisher”!

 

Harry

[harryglos]

Ender I must apologize to you may man... I reread your post and you actually did have a good question and it frankly surprised the heck out of me.

 

RE: Also, what was the load on the server during these tests? Were all clients logged in and doing things or just a couple?

 

For both test with 6 & 7 a minimum of 45 people were logged into the system doing their normal daily work. All of my tests were done on one of the slaves!

 

Ender, please do not ask a good question again, it is really most troubling and throws off the natural order!

 

Harry

[bigzilla]

Hi Everybody,

 

Wow, this is a lot to take in. I had to print it and spend a little time with it before it started to sink in. It’s a lot of information and I couldn’t thank you enough for your willingness to share it. There are a lot of people who know a lot of things, but most are not willing to give it away. So thanks for sharing and what you told Ender is right. I didn’t know that!

 

Bill

[Maarten Witberg]

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you suppose separate files performed better in some tests?

 

[/ QUOTE ]

 

Ender put more questions in his six lines than a wise and patient man may find time to answer Harry... but I am still curious about your views on this. Your results are counterintuitive. I'd expect a single file to be faster... maybe to do with the filesizes as you reported them? could fragmentation across the harddisk also be a factor (if so how)?

 

kjoe

[harryglos]

Hi guys,

 

I don't think Fragmentation of the hard disk would be an issue. And if it were it would apply to the 6 test result as well as the 7 result.

 

After I imported the data I ran both the “Compact File” and “Optimize File”...

 

A lot of us in the FileMaker community are still struggling with the ins and outs of FM 7... You see, all of the structural underpinnings of FileMaker were the same for so long. Even when FileMaker went relational, the base structure was the same! 7 brings a new product to town. It looks enough to be the old product and acts enough like the old product,but it is not. It’s like the old saying “if it looks like a duck and quacks like a Duck, it must be a Duck”! I think most of us have found that 7 ain’t A Duck!

 

We haven't figured out all the nuances yet because the product has not been out all that long and developers haven't stretched it out enough to know for a certainty what works best. Just look at the changes to the calculations and script functions. All changes that were needed to support the new programing structure! So for the moment, read the articles, follow the posts and let the new FileMaker 7 grow on you. The absolute will most likely come in another couple upgrades from FMP where they say “do it this way”! 7 has some growing pains to work through and work through it, it shall. If I were to through up one element of caution it would be “MAKE SURE OF YOUR DATA MANAGEMENT” Simple things like “Keep carriage returns and blank data out of your system”. They will eventually bite you and make your system degrade. That’s Alabama talk for Sloooooooooooow!

 

So, remember that the data is what makes up the size of the database, not the structure. The greater the volume of information, the greater the need to “Compact File” and “Optimize File”. It's found at the bottom of the File menu, click on "Maintenance". Use it, it will speed thing up and keep things in order.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Harry

[Robert Schaub]

I don't Know Harry , I just converted a large system to 7

and it is not even on a network yet and it is incredibly Slow and Stupid.

 

A few things to consider on the network test.

What was the speed of FM 5 or 6 before conversion?

 

Is 7 flying Solo on the Net of Is the 5 server still running?

 

We at work had an massive slow down in system a few weeks ago.

What's wrong? No one knows. Out of the blue we decide to

change a dumb netwoek hub to a smart network switch. And ShaZam

all the computers on the network as operating as they did when they were just out of the box.

 

So Is it a network issue or is it DB Stucture?

 

Will I get some of your tongue lassing whit for responding with

my opion, will you beat you like you did Ender. I sure hope so.

'Cause you know I like it?

[harryglos]

Chopper, Chopper, Chopper

 

This is the reason I felt my test was so important, because it took out the variables. You are as right as right can be about the hub causing a conflict and the problems can be multiple choice as you well know. I called your office the other day to see if I could be of any help. They told me the problem wasn’t with the Hub, it’s that you were standing over the data table “eating a Sub”! This, it seemed to them, had the most significant effect on speed and operation, of the, dare I say, "Sub Roootine"!

 

RE: I just converted a large system to 7 and it is not even on a network yet and it is incredibly Slow and Stupid.

 

I don’t know anything about the solution you converted... But I would bet it’s a “Single file format! We try to build with our 6 and earlier brain and 7 jumps up and says, NOPE, can’t do it that way! Then we say, ok, then how do you do it? And 7 answers back... Guess, GrassHopper!

 

I have my own theories on speed differences within FMP 7 but I cannot substantiate them and will keep them to myself! But my test, although admittedly difficult to follow, is specific and non subjective. It’s the facts man just the facts!

 

BTW: I do show the speed of 6... You have to read through it but it’s there! I know man, the words may be written too close to the paper!

 

And I did not give a tong lashings to Ender for his opinion! It’s like my wife said just the other day. “if I want your opinion and, I’ll give it to you”! Ender is a respect member of this community, his bad communicable rash not withstanding!

 

Yyou were one of my first mentors when I started File Making and as such should deserve my full loyalty and respect! Of course the operative word here is “Should”! That was before I found out that your name is “Honey Bun” on another forum! You said it yourself in the last line of your post “'Cause you know I like it? “ Just one sick mondooker man, just one sick mondooker!

 

Harry

[Maarten Witberg]

[ QUOTE ]

t! We try to build with our 6 and earlier brain and 7 jumps up and says, NOPE, can’t do it that way! Then we say, ok, then how do you do it? And 7 answers back... Guess, GrassHopper!

 

 

[/ QUOTE ]

 

It sounds just like technology push which has bad standing with me. We software developers foist a fantastic program upgrade on you. It's slick! it's better! It's got more doodles and appendages that you'll ever use or even discover! it's just what you need! Oh and incidentally, you'll have to buy more video ram to begin with and while you're at it, chuck the whole system out the window and buy a faster machine and a faster network.

What I mean to say is, Harry you seem to have uncovered a feature that has not been advertised by FMI but fits into the general trend of software-hardware evolution.

I'm wondering whether I am going to be proven wrong and you are right that if we develop our 6 brains to 7 brains then things will be better and people will be happy all round.

Now, how to go about doing that? that's the important question for this forum I guess.

Is modularization really the answer? Or is flossing?

 

kjoe

[harryglos]

Greetings, Greetings and More Greetings

 

The first thing I think we need to do is go back to my first post that started this thread! Here is my quote from the 2nd paragraph and is the pivotal phrase of all that has followed.

 

Quote:

 

“First let me say what you already know! “One Does Not Fit All” in Solution building or Solution use”! The structure I am talking about is predicated on Large Solutions, with a lot of data and many users.”

 

Look, 7 is stable, 7 is up to the task, 7 maintains a features rich programing environment and 7 maintains it’s traditional ease of use. I think what we are all trying to say here, is that 7 is a different beast than we’ve seen before. But it is a beast! Like any other beast we need to learn how to train it so it coexists with us in our environment.

 

This new “all in one” plan for 7 is not new. There are other databases out there that are built this way. One of them that comes to mind was, if not the first database made for the Mac it was one of them and it’s called Helix. It is a single “all in one environment” and they did an excellent job of “data management”. It’s been too long since I’ve been involved with Helix, but they had a way of handling data within the system that kept it from bringing the system to a crawl. FileMaker, if it really intends to be an “all in one” platform will need to do the same thing.

 

I’m not a systems weeny so I don’t know how you do that, but that it can be done is a definite. And I have no doubt if FMP is going to pursue the all in one environment, they will find a better way to handle the data! They have too!

 

You don’t have to take my advice on any of this. I’d be the first to tell you that I don’t know anything! Go to the web sites of the FMP developers who sell their solutions and download their products and you know what you’ll find? They have been converted to 7 and every one that I have seen are in “Separate File Format”. They are all the separate files of old! These are FMP developers that have been around with their FMP solutions for years. Why are they using the old separate file solution? Daaaaaa!

 

Of one thing I’m cretin, FMP will do something about this or they will scrub the “all in one” feature and I'm not sure they're willing to do that... I think they will pursuer what is commonly known as the “Separation Model" with one interface file and external data files”. This to needs some work. FMP just threw it out there without much preamble, but I think it has great merit! We will have to see, but that would be my guess!

 

Kjoe has obviously been spending way too much time with Chopper at the Sub Shop! Flossing! Will the torture never end!

[Maarten Witberg]

Harry, the best sub I ever ate was in a little eatery in a little village out in the state of Louisiana, called a po'boy if I remember correctly and quite contradictorily it was fully laden with the best beef and some secret sauce that has me lipsmackin' even when I think back of it. That was Mardi Gras time 1992!

 

this has nothing to do with the thread, or any thread whatsoever. I did not even floss afterwards.

 

but your points, as always, are well received.

 

kjoe

[Ender]

Yak, yak, yak...

 

What's all this double-talk about flossing and ducks and mondookers, when still we have an important question to look at here: "What's it all mean?"

 

Harry, you've already said separate files in FM7 perform better, but let's follow up on some equally important (but poorly answered) questions:

1. Did FM7 in separate files perform better or worse than FM6? (Sorry, I was lost in translation on this one.)

2. How much better or worse? (And don't start that "3F2 vs. *6A" mumbo-jumbo again. If I wanted to read code, I would have been a Unix programmer.)

3. Could your results have been different if you had used a server with some muscle? (Dual processor, 1GB RAM, fast hard drive.)

 

And a follow-up question for Chopper: "What are you saying?"

 

1. Is your converted solution still slow or was this fixed by your hub upgrade?

2. Is this converted solution still in separate files or did you combine them?

3. Have you tested your converted solution on a server, and if so, is it still "Incredibly Slow and Stupid"? (I've noticed that my converted solution performs a little better hosted than it does on my local workstation.)

 

And Harry, don't go giving me the third degree about asking questions again, because you're the one who opened this can-of-worms. I'm just trying to eat them.

[Robert Schaub]

[ QUOTE ]

Yak, yak, yak...

 

 

And a follow-up question for Chopper: "What are you saying?"

 

1. Is your converted solution still slow or was this fixed by your hub upgrade?

2. Is this converted solution still in separate files or did you combine them?

3. Have you tested your converted solution on a server, and if so, is it still "Incredibly Slow and Stupid"? (I've noticed that my converted solution performs a little better hosted than it does on my local workstation.)

 

 

[/ QUOTE ]

 

 

Answers Sorry they are not in order of questions I am ramblin'

 

 

The Hub I spoke of in previous post is at work. Differnt Solution altogether still running on 5. After replacing the hub as spoke of the system instantly increased speed 10 fold. That's why Isuggest a network hardware problem.

 

Computers at work are mostly I-Macs running 9.2 to 10.3.7, (many inbetween, i.e. I-Macs , a couple E-Mac, I-books, a couple antique macs to A Dual Processer Mac for a server and a small handful of PCs)

 

 

Converted Solution is on my home computer HP / 120 GB / 2.7 Athalon / 512 Ram.

 

It is a Plating House Solution which consist of 38 Files not including The 7 Paint Booth Files yet to be converted. I have not tried on network yet.

 

The Files are still Separate and I converted them by opening 7 then selecting the FP5 to convert.

 

The are relly slow when you log onto them , and takes approx 30-45 seconds to open define database.

 

The Idea of converting them to 7 is so it is easier to incorp into a solution made from scratch. I plan on re-creating the files but they would easier to replacate in in same format. I just have trouble with the today's computers operating at yesterdays speeds.

 

As for Harry's theory, I think the old converted files will operated slower than new files created in 7 to begin with.

[Ugo DI LUCA]

Well,

 

The thread started about what was best handled by FM7, on the structure side, to which I agree that going for separate files can be a good option as to reach modularization. Not speaking about separation model here.

 

Now, regarding your tests and the speed issue you have identified, there are too many parameters involved (from network, data structure, logic, etc.) in my humble opinion to go for quick deductions and advocate against one scheme or another.

 

May be after all this Stamp Database you were referring to should be considered for tests, as there are chances that the structure of both a FM6 and FM7 Stamp solution are quite identical.

 

Really, I have no idea how I could compare one solution I had done with 6 with one I'd be doing from scratch with 7, and even less how I could build several database of my own with different structure for matter of comparisons.

As probably everybody here, I noticed serious speed issues on converted solutions for sure, but at the moment the new one (which still is on test and not served) acts really quick even if differently in tasks and functionnalities.

 

My 2 cents.

[Maarten Witberg]

For what it's worth at this stage in the discussion, here is attached a table I constructed from Harry's presentation of the results. If I misinterpreted them Harry, please let me know. You said "speed results are shown between v6 "separate file system" and v7 "separate file system" only. So what is the reference system setup for each column?

 

 

kjoe

 

PS "faster by 1/2" i translated as +50%, "slower by 1/3" as -/-30%, "really slow" as >>>, no difference as 0.