Clickable list to Form view

[IGotIt]

Hi everyone,

 

What I want to do on my Customer Entry layout is click a button that will bring up a "Pick List" view of my customers that is 250 x 639 Px. I see this as just a standard "list view" with the Customer name only. This would sit off to the left of the Customer Entry screen and you'd click on a customer so that customer and it's information would then show on the Customer Entry screen.

 

Ideally I think it would be a good idea for the Pick List window to be open all the time but could be closed at the click of a button. I think the Pick List should also automatically close once a layout, other than the Customer Entry" layout is selected.

 

Is this doable or am I kidding myself? I know I can use a portal on the layout but that dose not work for what I'm doing.

 

As always thanks for your help,

 

Milo

[David Head]

I can see how this could work with a portal showing all customers records. There could be two layouts - one with the portal, the other without. A button on the layout without the portal switches to the layout with. When a user selects a customer in the portal, it switches to that record and also to the other layout thereby 'hiding' the portal.

 

I could do up a sample file but you are not a member yet (after 130 posts! ) so you couldn't access it.

[harryglos]

Hey David,

 

Heck with ol Milo,smiley-surprised I'd like to see what you'd cook up there in the land Down Under. I love that "Now you see it and now you don't" stuff! Do you have that for both portals and people?smiley-tongue-out

 

So show us what you have in mind from your last post and then we can talk more about the people part later...smiley-laughing

 

Harry

[IGotIt]

Hi David,

 

You post your idea and I'll join, how's that?

 

Milosmiley-laughing

[David Head]

OK, here's the idea. Whaddyareckon?

[Maarten Witberg]

Grand Exalted Imperial Omnipotent Stomper :confused:

you gonna teach us your secret handshakes Harry?smiley_cool

[harryglos]

Hey Man not secret handshakes... Please not that! Plus I have to redo what our friend from Down Under did to poor Milo.smiley-cry Milo says

 

"What I want to do on my Customer Entry layout is click a button that will bring up a "Pick List" view of my customers that is 250 x 639 Px."

 

and the boy went on to say...

 

"Ideally I think it would be a good idea for the Pick List window to be open all the time but could be closed at the click of a button. I think the Pick List should also automatically close once a layout, other than the Customer Entry" layout is selected.

 

All is doable but why oh why did the "Big Thunder from Down Under" not perform said tasks?Oh Really! David I like what you did but we need more man we need more...smiley-wink

 

Milo I'll fix you up but I'm on my way to Denver at the moment so I'll need a couple days. What say you Big Thunder!smiley-laughingsmiley-laughing

 

Harry

[David Head]

All is doable but why oh why did the "Big Thunder from Down Under" not perform said tasks? Oh Really! David I like what you did but we need more man we need more...smiley-wink

What I am saying is that the management of multiple windows in the mode proposed is not required or desirable.

 

I know he is working on a Mac but the cross-platform solidity of such a solution would be dubious at best.

 

I also know he said "I know I can use a portal on the layout but that dose not work for what I'm doing". So I will now ask - why not?

 

Does the solution posted not answer all requirements:

 

1. ...click a button that will bring up a "Pick List" view of my customers. Yes smiley-laughing

 

2. ...just a standard "list view" with the Customer name only. Yes smiley-laughing

 

3. ...sit off to the left of the Customer Entry screen Yes smiley-laughing

 

4. ...click on a customer so that customer and it's information would then show on the Customer Entry screen.Yes smiley-laughing

 

5. ...Pick List window to be open all the time but could be closed at the click of a button. No, it closes when you select a customer, but it can be made to stay open smiley-wink

 

6. ...Pick List should also automatically close once a layout, other than the Customer Entry" layout is selected.Yes smiley-laughing

[harryglos]

Oh sure if you put it that way!smiley-tongue-out One very good point Sir Thunder, cross platform. Could be trouble on a PC for sure and is just another reason to hate them. Yep good and valid point. It even takes away my best response of """Oh Yaaaaaaaaaa"""!smiley-smile You even used more smiley faces than me...smiley-laughing and no body does that... You're good!smiley-wink

 

Milo you're on your own now buddy... You've got to handle the "Big Thunder from Down Under" now. I tried to intervene and he just crushed me like a bug and how could I fight back with all those smiley faces.

 

It's just so wrong, so very very wrong! I was going to say “Hey I have my pride” but then I run the risk of David or someone else chiming in with “No you don’t”!smiley-surprised Don’t you hate when that happens!smiley-laughing

 

Harry

[IGotIt]

Hi Guys,

 

I guess I don't understand the Mac/PC difference, but I do very little PC work. So if I understand correctly the 250 x 639 Px pick list is not possible. One of the reasons I did not want a portal is searches. If I search for the last name that starts with G and I use a form view and list view I have the G's on both. If I use a filter I can filter the G's in the portal but not in the form view. And if I do the same in form view I don't get it from the portal.

 

I understand some of these if not all of these are possible with a portal situation but it requires a lot of work and can be trouble when the solution is served. Thats why I want a List view / Form view.

 

What else can I do?

 

Milo

[David Head]

One of the reasons I did not want a portal is searches. If I search for the last name that starts with G and I use a form view and list view I have the G's on both. If I use a filter I can filter the G's in the portal but not in the form view. And if I do the same in form view I don't get it from the portal.

Sorry but I don't understand that at all! smiley-surprised I have read it through ten times and I still don't get it.

 

Are you suggesting that you would search in the window or portal showing all customers? I have no idea what you are saying! Sorry!

 

How about you tell me what you want to be able to do and what interface you want. I have suggested above that the sample file I posted ticks all the requirements you have listed.

[IGotIt]

Hi David and sorry for not being clear.

 

With a standard form and list view what I have in one window is also in the other because they are both from the Customer relationship. What I mean by that is I can do a find in list view and form view shows the same customers. I can do a find in form view and those customers also show in list view.

 

So what I was thinking is, why not just have a smaller list pop up view showing only the customer name where I can perform finds as necessary and what I find are also shown in form view. Also and more important is I can do a find in form view and only those customers show in the small list view so I can simply click on the customer I want of the found set.

 

I can also set it up in the small list view so the customer selected is highlighted. Of course I know you can also do this in a portal.

 

I hope this help, thanks David.

 

Milo

[David Head]

With a standard form and list view what I have in one window is also in the other because they are both from the Customer relationship. What I mean by that is I can do a find in list view and form view shows the same customers. I can do a find in form view and those customers also show in list view.

There may be some misunderstanding here of how separate windows work with found sets. This part is not necessarily true:

 

"...what I have in one window is also in the other because they are both from the Customer relationship..."

 

If you are talking about doing a find in form view and then switching to list view in the same window, that will work - it will retain the same found set.

 

If you are talking about having two windows open and doing a find in one, then the other will not change its found set or sort order.

 

So what I was thinking is, why not just have a smaller list pop up view showing only the customer name where I can perform finds as necessary and what I find are also shown in form view. Also and more important is I can do a find in form view and only those customers show in the small list view so I can simply click on the customer I want of the found set.

So what I am saying above is that if you have a small (new) window with a customer list and you do a find in that window, it will not affect the found set in the main window (and vice versa). Two windows have independent found sets and sort orders. That's what makes them so useful! You can try this yourself without having to script the process.

 

What you would need to do is to script the find in either window so that it also transfers the found set to the other window (if that window is already open).

 

If the small window is not already open, if the script creates a new window it will inherit the current found set and sort order (but needs to also switch layouts).

 

So once you understand how multiple windows in FileMaker Pro work, what do you want to do?

[IGotIt]

Hi David,

 

Here's what I'd like to do. I'd like to have the small window with just the customer names and lets call it "Customer Select". Here a customer can be clicked and that customers full information will show up on the Customer Form view. I think that the selected customer on the customer select list should be highlighted some how. So that whatever customer is showing on the form view that customer is highlighted on the customer select layout.

 

All searches should take place on the Customer Form view only and if a search is done and 5 customers are found. These 5 customers will be shown on both the Customer Form view and in the Customer Select list. It may be a good idea to have a "Show All" button on the customer form view as well.

 

What do you think David, would this work?

 

Milo

[David Head]

I will paraphrase your requests:

 

1. Have the small window with just the customer names ("Customer Select")

2. Here a customer can be clicked and that customers full information will show up on the Customer Form view.

3. The selected customer on the customer select list should be highlighted

4. Whatever customer is showing on the form view that customer is highlighted on the customer select layout.

5. All searches should take place on the Customer Form view only

6. If a search is done the found customers will be shown on both the Customer Form view and in the Customer Select list.

7. Have a "Show All" button on the customer form view as well.

 

And the responses thereto:

1. This can certainly be done

2. This will require a scripted process to pass the current record to the Customer Form window. But what do you want to do with the current found set? It would be OK if the clicked customer was in the found set (just go to the record) but what if they are not?

3. You can certainly leave a highlight on the clicked customer. But then how will you update the highlighted record when the user goes to the next record in the Customer Form or List? You will have to script record navigation and prevent use of the standard book icon for record navigation (hide and lock the status area).

4. As stated in #3, that will depend on how they get to that record on the form

5. You can restrict searches to that window.

6. That will require passing the found set to the Customer Select window. That can be done but all searches must be scripted - the user cannot just use Ctrl-F to do a search.

7. That is OK but goes against what you said about searches only on the Customer Form. You should have a Show All button on the form and force a Show All in the Customer Search window to be consistent.

 

So yes it can all be done. But there are a few things that you will need to consider before you can get it working. And after all that, is it really more effective than my earlier solution?

 

BTW, what happened to your bargain - "You post your idea and I'll join, how's that?"?

[IGotIt]

Hi David,

 

The first 1 through 7 are exactly correct.

 

#2 If not in the found set how about a button that will show all customers?

#3 The status bar will be closed and locked and everything will be scripted.

#6 All searches must be scripted and Ctrl-F cannot be used.

#7 I agree, it should be done that way to be consistent.

 

RE: So yes it can all be done. But there are a few things that you will need to consider before you can get it working. And after all that, is it really more effective than my earlier solution?

 

Two main problems with the earlier solution.

 

1. It requires two different size screens (layout with portal and layout without) that I don’t like as well as the pop-up.

2. I’ve read that doing all of this with a portal takes a lot of additional work arounds that ads complexity and potential problems over a network.

 

The bargain lives and is being handled as we speak.

 

Thanks David,

 

Milo

[David Head]

OK I have a basic system working. There are some interesting issues to address in getting this set up. And I am not ssure that it is really worth the effort. But each to his own.

[Wingwalker]

Hi Guys,

 

I find this all very interesting. I like Milo's idea of a customer list that pop's up unto itself where a customer can be chosen from a, reduced in size, list view. I only say this because I've found in my own things that portals are not always the best direction, especially something like this cross platform. This can also be do to my setting it up wrong and I'd not discount that.

 

Then I read David's information, who knows a lot more than I do and he's not for it. So I'm confused because Milo's way seems to me to be the easier of the two.

 

James

[Wingwalker]

Portals are great if you just have a portal for customers and all you do is look up customers by name or letter. But no one just looks up by customer, you perform finds for many things like in this threads example, in form view you may look up customers by zip code. You do that and the form view shows them and if you have a list view it shows them, but not the portal. So the portal you use to go from one customer to the next is of no use. The same is true of any other find done on the form view,that found set is not shown in the portal, making the portal useless at that point. Or am I missing something?

 

If the selection method is a list view, whatever find you perform in one view shows in the other.

 

James

[harryglos]

David said: OK I have a basic system working. There are some interesting issues to address in getting this set up.

Ok David aka "Big Thunder" So where's the system? Where's the plan? Where's the hope for humanity? Where's the Nobel Piece Pri.... Oops sorry man got a little carried away there. smiley-surprised

 

Look I've been eagerly awaiting your solution but so far not a word, a whisper, a thing to hang my hope, my dreams and aspirations on. Come on man the suspence is just eating at the very core of my being.smiley-smile I wonder who writes my stuff, the boy writes good!smiley-wink

 

Ok David give it up man...smiley-laughing

 

Harry

[David Head]

OK, here is it. There are still some issue to be sorted out - like for example transferring a sort order to the pick list. Just more time to do. But I am still not convinced it is worth the effort. Anyway, see what you think so far.

 

But disappointingly, I still see Milo is not a member. So he must be getting someone else to send this file to him. Please don't do that.

[Maarten Witberg]

David,

 

I tried the sample. I think I agree about it not being worth the effort.

because of all the snags a person may encounter: if you close the form view window and then click on a name in the pick list, the form view opens in the pick window. you have a subscript that checks if the pick list is already open, I guess this should be expanded.

also the window focus might be an issue: what is the expected end result? you move back to the pick list, but which is the more logical focus?

 

window management I find a difficult topic, more so if there are multiple windows open that the user can freely move to and from (and close at will).

 

all the same, the sample gets me thinking about a multi window solution I'm working on... so thanks...

 

 

maarten

[harryglos]

Hi Ho Fellow FileMaker-Ins,

 

Well well well, when the “Big Thunder” rumbles he makes a great noise doesn’t he. I for one like it… As a matter of fact I like it a lot! Look I know that portals are the consistent flavor of the month, but they are not without their limitations.smiley-frown

 

I must disagree with you David and Kjoe, my learned and respected colleagues. I think this exercise is well worth the time, knowing of course how little David’s time is worth,smiley-laughing and like the idea and the way David implemented it for us.

 

You need to add “Close Window” script step when leaving the main entry form and David’s right about adding the sort Contacts Pick List. But David this thing is pretty bullet proof and I for one thank you for putting it together. I love this about FileMaker… All the ways we have to solve a problem and/or work around. Yes Sir David, the “Big Thunder” is most apt.smiley_cool

 

BTW I took my way of doing this project, very similar to David’s and put it up against the standard filtered portal over a network of both Macs and PC’s and guess what. It out performed the portal format just as I expected it would. I used David's as well with the same outcome... I don’t like the flashing aspect of it on a PC but based on your usage is well worth it in my humble opinion.

 

Igotit thanks for the idea and David’s right… You promised!smiley-frown

Kjoe Said: all the same, the sample gets me thinking about a multi window solution I'm working on... so thanks...

What are you saying there birdman… What's good for the Goose is not for the Gander?smiley-laughing

 

Harry

[Maarten Witberg]

good for the Goose...

essentially, yes... it takes effort to do this right. I'm not saying you should never make multi windows apps, but not when there's a good alternative (such as has been demo'ed earlier by David). I would not want to discard the idea altogether... just that on balance... you know. I said I think I agree... no I'm not wriggling out of my former opinion. I think.

 

I must admit my dislike comes mostly from worrying about the hassles of managing it. On the other hand I work with floating panels in many programs such as word, adobe creative suite etc and this makes for a very flexible UI. But the big difference is that these floating panels

a) look different than the content window (top window bar f.i.)

b) really float in the sense that they are always on top of the content window and are never hidden from view by the content window.

both will be very hard to mimick or create an alternative for. maybe I'm over-ambitious?

 

i'm also wondering about how to make this a logical experience. if you give a user two windows to play with, you're setting him free to move these about the screen and rightly so. But would you then want to store the last position using get ( windowleft ) and get ( windowtop )... but you can't grab these values on window close (can you?). This a big fat hairy deal? I don't know. It just gets me thinking this thread.

 

BTW I took my way of doing this project, very similar to David’s and put it up against the standard filtered portal over a network of both Macs and PC’s and guess what. It out performed the portal format just as I expected it would.

now that's interesting. so you're saying you've got something up your sleeve? and what exactly is "outperforming" here? faster finds? how much faster? how large is your data set?

[harryglos]

Greetings and even more Greetings,

 

Ok let’s look at this more closely. You have a portal and you filter the portal with a “V” for example and you get all companies in your database starting with a “V” and you can click each to see the results on the form view and you could not be more delighted with yourself. However, did you create a found set as far as form view is concerned? No… you did not! Well how important is that right…

 

Go into list view and perform a find again for “V” and go back to form view. Is that found set shown? Yes… Is that found set shown in the portal? No!smiley-cry

 

Go to form view enter find mode perform a find and does that found set show in the portal? No…smiley-cry

 

With what David gave us everything is yes…smiley-wink Now hang on hang on, I see a bunch of you FileMaker-Ins shouting “Hey but you can make all/most of that happen with a portal…smiley-tongue-out Oh yah, how?smiley-surprised

 

Look I and most of you can make most anything happen, but at what price and at what overhead. Everything I do anymore is networked, so “if it ain’t good over the network I ain’t doin it”! And hey, how much are you willing to pay for all the shenanigans it would take in support of a portal to do all this? Its kludge, it’s slow and talk about cross-platform/network issues, whoa.

 

Oh and God forbid you do a search in form view that has nothing to do with the customer name like a find by zip code... With a portal you get nothin but what was there before... David's solution what do you get? You bet, you get a pick list with that found set right there for you to navigate.smiley-laughing You'll note David added a navigation to form view. Did you notice if you move up or down the pick list moves with it... Now I ask you... Is that FileMaker-ish or not? Try it with a portal and it will just laugh at you. Portals are great, do not misunderstand me. They are just not great for all tasks...smiley-undecided

 

So you tell me “Fine Fellow FileMaker-Ins”… Where’s the beef?smiley_cool

 

Harry

[David Head]

Igotit thanks for the idea and David’s right… You promised!smiley-frown

Milo seems to have lost interest in this post or dropped off the planet. smiley-undecided

[harryglos]

Hey David,

 

Just wanted you to know that I incorporated your (my smiley-wink) selection design (converted from a typical portal selection method) into a solution I built for a client and they are lovin it! The solution is networked, caries a heavy load with almost max users.

 

I made a few changes that you would have made as well if you were going to put it into full application.

• Toggle to either auto open on entry to Contacts layout or open on request
  
• Constant highlight of customer (even after file change) along with some housekeeping issues.
  
• Close pick list when going to another file.

The customer loved it because they could search over every field pertaining to the customer, search from form and list views and the pick list always reflected the new found set.

 

I had nowhere near the amount of overhead necessary to support the portal selection method, other than a bit more scripting. I know you were not real keen on this idea but I liked it from the start and it functions beautifully!

 

Just thought you should know that you build good stuff even if you don’t like what you’re building. Now that’s a developer.smiley-laughing

 

Has anyone else given this beauty a road test and tried it out in a full solution? If not you're missing something! BTW what did you do to Bigzilla?smiley-surprised

 

Harry