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Is FM 8.5 compatible with Leopard?

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David Head
Well Im one of the dumb ones that upgraded to OSX leopard and I can tell you that filemaker 8.5 doesnot work woth it. All my billing for my company is being held hostage to this.

Your company is 'being held hostage'? That's a bit extreme!

Is there any way I can get Leopard off my computer and go back to the old OSX? Will that get me back to where I can at least bill my clients for work Ive done.

You can restore the backup you took of your machine before you upgraded. Or if you did not do that, you can reinstall off the old OSX install disks. Best to ring the company that you purchased Leopard from (Apple) and ask them.

Ive had it with Filemaker. Im going to find another billing system.

No support from them without getting your credit card out. Always behind the 8 ball with system updates, and now I find out that Apple owns Filemaker. And they still cant work together. Im thinking something is nuts here.

All a little bit emotional. This is obviously not the first time you have had problems but I can't remember another OSX upgrade where there were these problems.

 

"Always behind the 8 ball with system updates" - care to explain that further?

 

The fact that FileMaker is a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple apparently does not make them any wiser than other vendors about a new OS. Strange but true. Apple are not favouring their own companies over others. Imagine the uproar if Adobe came out with incompatibilities (as they have) and FileMaker had none because they had inside information! No favourites there. So I think it points more to a very short lead time on Apple's part to push a spotted cat out the door. It has left many application developers on the hop, not just FileMaker and Adobe.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to upgrade to Leopard. But I know I can't so Apple doesn't get my money just yet. And it may have a big impact on their (Apple's) revenues.

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David Head
On more searching found thhis item on the web....."Adobe has warned that some - but not all - Adobe Creative Suite 3 applications will need software updates before becoming fully compatible with Mac OS X 10.5.

 

Don't get me wrong but I am only a small business man who over the past 12 months has shelled out over $10,000 for new Mac machines software and specifically tailored Filemaker developed software to run my 2 man business, now expected to shell out another wad of money to update again if and when they get it working.

 

Can't see too many small business people being happy with that situation

 

But then maybe I'm just a grump

I understand your pain but I don't understand why you have run out and installed Leopard on the day it was released. By your own admission, you have already spent a lot of money. Was there something in Leopard you particularly needed right now?

 

The simple answer is to return to 10.4 or whatever you were running and perhaps try Apple for a refund (but good luck with that). If I was an Apple reseller, I would be advising customers not to buy Leopard until they were satisfied that their applications will work properly after the upgrade.

 

And no I don't think you are a grump ;) And don't get an iPhone as soon as they arrive either ;) Stay cool and let others test it first.

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tonysyl

David,

In your reply to me you mentioned reinstalling 10.4 to get back to 8.5 in filemaker. Can you explain that a bit? Is it that simple? I hope so.

Will 10.4 over ride 10.5?

thanks

tony

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David Head
David,

In your reply to me you mentioned reinstalling 10.4 to get back to 8.5 in filemaker. Can you explain that a bit? Is it that simple? I hope so.

Will 10.4 over ride 10.5?

So you didn't clone your drive before the upgrade?

 

I don't know because I haven't had to do it. Perhaps contact Apple support? it may require a clean install.

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tonysyl

Im sad to say I did not clone my drive. I was dead from the neck up and now

Im paying for it. A clean install will defeat the purpose. I will have no records.

This is an amazing thing. Really.

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Ender

To revert back to an older system, you would need to backup your user folders, and do an Erase and Install of the earlier system. Then reinstall each application, and restore the user folders and adjust the system settings.

 

Kind of a pain in the butt, especially getting all the apps installed, and all the updates applied. This is pretty much the same boat you're in when you get a new computer and have to install and setup everything on it.

 

I do this sort of thing pretty often. Every new model Mac we get, I've got to install all the apps, run updates, configure the settings, then transfer the user's documents and prefs over. The whole process takes several hours.

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David Head

Too late for tonysyl but a word to the wise from the TidBITS editors:

 

Make a Backup -- Do not under any circumstances even consider thinking about upgrading to Leopard without a complete, recent, and verified backup of your drive, preferably a bootable duplicate. (Two backups would be even better.) You should do this not only in case something goes wrong during the upgrade itself, but so that you can go back to your previous system, later, if you find out in a few days or a week that something simply isn't working for you in Leopard. Even for people who have no trouble with Leopard at all, a bootable duplicate is extremely helpful in that it lets you use the Erase and Install method without losing any of your old data or applications.

BTW, SuperDuper! is a recommended application for doing this.

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tonysyl
I have managed to get FileMaker 8.5 to work with Leopard.

Set Formats in International system preferences to US computer.

You can load a file but Caps is inverted and you need num lock on.

Not very elegant!

We need to persuade FileMaker to:

1. Update FM 8.5 to run with Leopard and for them to offer a very cheap upgrade from early FileMaker versions to 8.5. This still leaves FileMaker to make money with the upgrade to 9.

2. To maintain compatibilty for FM8.5 during the development of Leopard.

 

 

Can someone tell me how to get to "international system preferences"

thanks

tony

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grenada
Loaded Leopard onto my new iMac this morning and Filemaker 8.5 will not work. Contacted Filemaker in Australia who informed me that 8.5 will not work with Leopard I will have to purchase updates to Version 9 (2 copies) and version 9 will not work until later in November when a patch is created for it.

I changed my system to US computer which allows me to open 8.5 but none of the files can be changed. All this after just spending $5000 to have a filemaker specific program written for my system - NOT HAPPY - Mac users with Filemaker BEWARE

 

Hi Padpop, I changed System Prefs/International/Formats to "United States" and 8.5 runs OK with Leopard. (United States Computer does not) You can also change back to Australia after filemaker is open and still works OK,

Regards Michael

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FileMaker Prim
I have managed to get FileMaker 8.5 to work with Leopard.

Set Formats in International system preferences to US computer.

You can load a file but Caps is inverted and you need num lock on.

Not very elegant!

We need to persuade FileMaker to:

1. Update FM 8.5 to run with Leopard and for them to offer a very cheap upgrade from early FileMaker versions to 8.5. This still leaves FileMaker to make money with the upgrade to 9.

2. To maintain compatibilty for FM8.5 during the development of Leopard.

 

Your post sums the situation up succinctly.

 

FileMaker either 'asleep on the job' (most likely) or assuming that 8.5 users will pay-up for the upgrade to 9 (less than acceptable in my view) or both!

 

I hope that the discontent within the FileMaker user community will embarrass FileMaker to provide support for 8.5 as well as 9 when they release the fix for 9 on 19 November. This situation has tarnished their reputation as being the database solution of choice for many small businesses which rely on FileMaker Pro to run their admin systems.

 

N.B. Set International System Preferences to 'English' language and 'United States' region and 8.5 appears to run normally on an Intel-based Mac. This fix is fine as long as you can tolerate US time and dates formats (very difficult for me).

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Norma_Snockurs
Stay cool and let others test it first.

From what I'm reading here this has got to be the best advice in this thread. I know it may be tricky for some developers as their clients demand to be at the 'cutting edge' (whatever that might be) of I.T. technology but it would appear that a lot of people have got too much time and money tied up in existing solutions to seriously consider an instant major update to an OS that is barely a few days old.

 

You know what? I'd wait until at least until 10.5.2 before upgrading to Leopard. Chances are that these showstopping bugs that everyone is fast becoming aware of (including, no doubt, Apple) will have been worked out within a maintenance release or two. Those who pay no attention to history are doomed to repeat it's mistakes. Never upgrade to a X.0 release of any software unless you are certain you know it will work for you. I know this is somewhat idealistic but it's a rule I always stick to and it rarely fails for me.

 

In fact I find that generally the last maintenance releases of any software build before a major upgrade are the most stable. Of course there are exceptions to this.

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Padpop

Quote

Hi Padpop, I changed System Prefs/International/Formats to "United States" and 8.5 runs OK with Leopard. (United States Computer does not) You can also change back to Australia after filemaker is open and still works OK,

Regards Michael

 

Hi Grenada

 

Thanks for that, but I spent the day returning to 10.4 and everything is back to NORMAL. I will wait and see what happems from Filemaker with respect to support to 8.5 and or problem solving with 9 before I reinstall Leopard. I have a business to run and cannot stand around and wait for fixes. If Filemaker sticks to their plan of no support for 8.5 then there is always Ebay for Leopard, someone will but it

 

I think that Filemaker is a little short sighted with their no support statements after all in business you have to operate day by day as best you can and if it means running 10.4 nad 8.5 for the next 3 - 4 years then so be it. I have always been one to upgrade and suffer the consiquences but this time I have a little too much invested.

 

Thanks for your input and advice, appreciate the effort

John

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Padpop
Hi Padpop, I changed System Prefs/International/Formats to "United States" and 8.5 runs OK with Leopard. (United States Computer does not) You can also change back to Australia after filemaker is open and still works OK,

Regards Michael

Hi Greanda

 

Just had a thought after reading a few more of the posts and came back to yours. I had loaded Leopard onto the 3 Macs in my office over the weekend and spent most of yesterday and today getting my main machine back to 10.4.

However I rang my offsider and got her to change her setting to the United States as she is still running Loepard, then change it back to Australian and it is working OK. This is great as I can leave Leopard on the other two machines until such time as we hear about the support or lack of!

 

Thanks again, appreciate your feedback

 

There are a few in the USA who would probably appreciate your info after reading some of the forums over there today!

Regards

John

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tonysyl

Hi again,

Still hoping that someone can lead me thru this "international language" change. I cant seen to find it.

thanks

tony

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Padpop
Hi again,

Still hoping that someone can lead me thru this "international language" change. I cant seen to find it.

thanks

tony

Hi Tony

 

Open up your Preferences folder and click on International

 

Select "Formats" from the top menu and change to United States

 

Open Filemaker and return to the "Formats" and change back to Australian

 

Apparently this will allow Filemaker to work with Leopard which it is doing presently on may machines as long as you leave Filemaker running.

 

I have only just done it on my machines at work so I will have to see what happens over the next few days, but if it keeps working until some support is forthcoming I can put up with the inconvienince of changing these two options everytime I restart Filemaker.

 

Let me know if it works for you

 

Regards

John

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Jack Rodgers

Filemaker 9 Demo installed FlexNet which seeks root access, bootstrap, etc. in order to verify the licensing of Filemaker. The installation was followed by my Filemaker 8.5 Developer crashing and even destroying all of the scripts in a file. After removing FlexNet as best I could, this stopped. But then Filemaker 9 refused to open.

 

The exe file mentioned above can be opened with a text editor or word processor, best make a copy for this. Scanning through it you will find like root access denied, bootstrap, an other nasty things.

 

The company that made this for Adobe and Filemaker has a history of buggy software on the PC platform.

 

I called it spyware and was accused of being whinny in my posts about this. Time will tell what effect this will have on Filemaker 9 Servers and single user and clients.

 

Remember the Sony Root Kit scandal? Will this be v2?

 

In the license for 9 Filemaker briefly references special technology in one sentence but nowhere that I have seen does it explain what it does and so on. A google search shows that hackers have already broken the code albeit with bugs.

 

The FlexNet stuff may only activate briefly when you open Filemaker so do any checking around that time.

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Jack Rodgers

Here's some of the text I found the in the Flexnet exe:

 

unable to allocate required memory

the service does not have root access

unable to allocate port

unable to set right on port -

unable to get bootstrap port -

unable to get parent bootstrap port

unable to register service

the service cannot gain root access

 

So it would seem to me that FlexNet is attempting to make some very unusual changes to our computers without us being aware of them.

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Ender

This isn't your soapbox, Jack. Stay on topic, please.

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Maarten Witberg

Jack

Have you seen the link to fm knowledge base I posted here

?

If you can

- point me to the websites that mention the exploits or hacks, and

- tell me what these error messages in the exe you posted actually mean

 

you've got my attention. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about the sky falling on my head.

 

Mike, perhaps you can move this to a separate thread?

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David Head
N.B. Set International System Preferences to 'English' language and 'United States' region and 8.5 appears to run normally on an Intel-based Mac. This fix is fine as long as you can tolerate US time and dates formats (very difficult for me).

When you have changed the control panel setting to English (United States), go into your database and go to File > File Options…. On the Text tab, choose Always use file's saved settings in the Data Entry section.

 

This will mean that if your database was created with say Australian region formats, you will still be able to enter Australian dates even though your system is US.

 

But be careful of problems with new databases created under US formats when you geet the updater. ;)

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Jack Rodgers
Jack

Have you seen the link to fm knowledge base I posted here

?

If you can

- point me to the websites that mention the exploits or hacks, and

- tell me what these error messages in the exe you posted actually mean

 

you've got my attention. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about the sky falling on my head.

 

Mike, perhaps you can move this to a separate thread?

 

http://forums.obdev.at/viewtopic.php?t=577&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=348a96b00a7899c0735df335d41de988

 

This is the Little Snitch forum where they discuss this problem. Many different ideas are brought up, some good some bad like any forum.

 

It is interesting to note the difference in attitude in other countries (I'm in US) regarding the invasion of our computers by businesses. As is said, the citizens elect the politicians and the corporations own them.

 

What those terms mean is that Filemaker has installed software than invades our security at the lowest level. Eventually this risk will prove to be meaningless as hackers will learn how to bypass it to pirate the software and also breach our security. Note that removing the file mentioned above by someone else causes Filemaker 9 to refuse to work.

 

This is a sensitive time for Filemaker users on the Mac platform. Leopard is very Beta and security holes are making it into the news. I would never upgrade a business computer to the latest OS and the latest version of Filemaker for 6 months to a year after both ship so to me the question isn't one of is 8.5 compatible but why anyone would want to upgrade to Leopard at this time in a business environment. And, Filemaker has stated they will not be supporting the pre-9 versions.

 

Stay with the current working OS and don't upgrade if you are using pre-9. If you have a locked working Filemaker solution, one that you cannot modify scripts and layouts, do not upgrade anything. Stay exactly where you are in terms of hardware and OS and Filemaker versions.

 

Of course clients who want to upgrade to the latest and greatest are great sources of income for the developer who will be called upon to fix the problems. I would never ever recommend to a client that they upgrade just to upgrade and I would explain the problems and try to change their minds.

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Maarten Witberg

I ran a test with v9 trial. I went offline, no internet connection, no other apps running except dashboard (can't be stopped except brute force). I started activity monitor. I started fm9 and it started fine. FNPlicensingserv also started. Through Activity monitor I stopped this process. It stopped and FM9 continued to work. I worked in FM9 for about twenty minutes, during which FNPlicensingserv did not start and during which I experienced no other problems.

Although twenty minutes is not conclusive, I think it's at least reasonable to say that FM9 does not "call home" on startup and it appears that what the KB article says is the truth: FNPlicensingserv looks in the registry for a legal install code or something like that, locally, and that's it. The claim on the Little Snitch forum seems unfounded to me: it's not bypassed, there just is no attempt to make outgoing call by filemaker so Little Snitch does not trigger (this based on what I understand from the purpose of this program. I don't have it installed). In my view there is no reason to continue this discussion unless new insights follow.

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Zero Gravitas

So what happens if I change my Format to US, but then customise it to be the same as the Australian Format anyway? Does FM Pro 8.5 complain, or does it not actually care if the values are the same, just the name of the format?

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Jack Rodgers
I ran a test with v9 trial. I went offline, no internet connection, no other apps running except dashboard (can't be stopped except brute force). I started activity monitor. I started fm9 and it started fine. FNPlicensingserv also started. Through Activity monitor I stopped this process. It stopped and FM9 continued to work. I worked in FM9 for about twenty minutes, during which FNPlicensingserv did not start and during which I experienced no other problems.

Although twenty minutes is not conclusive, I think it's at least reasonable to say that FM9 does not "call home" on startup and it appears that what the KB article says is the truth: FNPlicensingserv looks in the registry for a legal install code or something like that, locally, and that's it. The claim on the Little Snitch forum seems unfounded to me: it's not bypassed, there just is no attempt to make outgoing call by filemaker so Little Snitch does not trigger (this based on what I understand from the purpose of this program. I don't have it installed). In my view there is no reason to continue this discussion unless new insights follow.

 

Since there are various always OK by Little Snitch ports open such as Safaris HTTP and HTTPS, messages can be sent via them without arousing LS's interest.

 

Mail has 6 ports open and I know I can send email using an SMTP plugin and Filemaker without Little Snitch noticing this. So why can't Filemaker and FlexNet do the same. Only something to read the outgoing data stream would be capable of answering that.

 

Filemaker states that after 9 opens it sends a message to the FlexNet to stop, however, it may not (especially if other apps are using it). What problems may occur if FlexNet keeps running are unknown to me other than the ones I experienced with 8.5.

 

The original dial home occurs when you start 9 for the first time. Using Little Snitch you would OK that, else no working 9. What info is sent during that dial home is not stated. I would guess some of the messages from FlexNet at the minimum.

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Maarten Witberg
The original dial home occurs when you start 9 for the first time
Fair enough. too late for me to try now. Maybe on another machine later on. I expect that not a lot will be sent through except license info. I'm not going to get paranoid over privacy issues nor over possible vulnerabilities. Shall we leave this thread to its original topic now?

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tonysyl

Well, heres the solution I have to take. Im trashing Leopard, reformatting my computer and getting rid of Filemaker altogether. If Filemaker is willing to take the low road and not support those that have helped build the company to what it is then, I have no love for them. Its a good program sure, but, if you get the door slammed in your face from support then I dont need it. Im going with another program and I hope many other people do to. They need to feel an effect from their "dont care" attitude.

My invoicing and estimating has been brought to a complete halt since loading Leopard. I have done nothing else but be on forums trying, along with many others here, to find out how to get back to normal. I believe there is a responsibility that Filemaker has to support its users not turn them away or ask them to buy an upgrade that doesnt work either. Its time to call a spade a spade. Yeah I made the mistake of loading Leopard but one would think that a company like Apple that owns both would talk somehow. I know Ive caught flack from some of you in here about what I have done or not done. Truth is, what I did wrong was trust two of the biggest software developers in the world that they were selling me functioning products.

I dont and never did need all the services of Filemaker program so I can go to a simpler program. This is my opinion.

thanks

t

By the way I talked to some other people that offered a possible solution.

They said that what is happening is Leopard is mixing up the permissions.

If you to the utilities correction it takes it back but Leopard just messes it up again. He said to trash the permissions in the program that is not working, empty the trash and restart. Then he said Leopard rebuilds it the way it should be. Try it I dont know.

t

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Zero Gravitas
So what happens if I change my Format to US, but then customise it to be the same as the Australian Format anyway? Does FM Pro 8.5 complain, or does it not actually care if the values are the same, just the name of the format?

 

If anyone is interested, this works. Change your format to Custom, copy whatever settings your format uses. Problem solved.

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Tacitus

Apparently FM are going to do a update to 8.5 so it (sort of) runs on Leopard. See:

 

http://filemaker.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/filemaker.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=6703

 

However: "....here may be other issues with FileMaker Pro 8.5 and FileMaker Pro 8.5 Advanced running on Leopard. These two products will not be supported on Leopard."

 

I think they should at least ensure that any stability issues are dealt with, even if they deprecate the Instant Web Publishing feature.

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Jack Rodgers
My invoicing and estimating has been brought to a complete halt since loading Leopard. I have done nothing else but be on forums trying, along with many others here, to find out how to get back to normal. I believe there is a responsibility that Filemaker has to support its users not turn them away or ask them to buy an upgrade that doesnt work either.

 

I think you will find most experienced developers and consultants SHOUTING "Don't upgrade if your business depends upon it. Wait 3 - 6 months until the smoke clears!"

 

It is simple logic, if everything is working why change anything? Don't fix what ain't broke.

 

If you maintained a proper backup of your files before moving to Leopard, you can use those under the OS you were using.

 

Here's is the simple truth about dollars and cents and software upgrades.

 

It is not financially feasible for any company to provide unlimited fixuppers for all the software they have ever created on every operating system that users might have. If it runs on the systems just shipped when it shipped, that's fine. But to expect a 5 year old application to run on operating systems 3 generations later is a sign of inexperience. To expect a company to be able to finance such bug fixes for a small number of users, is also unrealistic. If they don't want to spend the money to upgrade, they can continue to use their existing software...it's that simple.

 

It would be more better if software companies simply stated that when a new OS arrives, they will ship a new version of their product but not upgrade the old to work on it. In fact, their products should be keyed to OS versions and not work on newer OS versions. This would protect the newbies who run into problems by upgrading in a hurry by preventing them from doing this.

 

In other words there is no financial incentive to provide unlimited free upgrades that are quite costly to create.

 

I do this in my database, "This script will not run on versions earlier than 8.5. If you need to use it, please upgrade."

 

Filemaker should do something similar.

 

"I have just encountered a new OS and I am not certified to run on it. I am quitting."

 

"Your scripts and fields and layouts were created under 4.5 and may not run correctly after this upgrade to 8.0."

 

To summarize, the one who rushes to install the newest OS or the newest software version is the one who does the bleeding and crying. Experienced users know this and wait until all the weeping and wailing dies down before upgrading.

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Jack Rodgers
However: "....here may be other issues with FileMaker Pro 8.5 and FileMaker Pro 8.5 Advanced running on Leopard. These two products will not be supported on Leopard."

 

I think they should at least ensure that any stability issues are dealt with, even if they deprecate the Instant Web Publishing feature.

 

How much money are you willing to spend to ensure that 8.5 will run on Leopard. You are willing to pay Apple for the new OS, how much are you willing to pay FIlemaker?

 

How many people are willing to do so to make this a profitable venture?

 

How many people are willing to work for nothing?

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